Mustafa Karasu said that forces in Rojhilat should present a common program.
KCK Executive Council member Mustafa Karasu spoke to Medya Haber TV about the Peace and Democratic Society Process, as well as current developments in Kurdistan, Turkey, and the Middle East.
The first part of the interview can be read here, and the second here.
Criticism to correct shortcomings
There are some negative attitudes. Truly, there has been opposition to the PKK and Leader Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] for 50 years in certain circles. This has not ended for them. In fact, many of the things they say now, they were already saying 50 years ago, 30 years ago, 10 years ago—they still repeat them today. Nothing has changed, according to them. They have not done anything either. They have contributed nothing to humanity, to the Kurdish people, to the struggle for freedom and democracy. But simply because they oppose the PKK and Leader Apo, as the saying goes, they say, “You have an eyebrow above your eye.” There are such people and circles. I don’t want to name names. I looked at one of them and he was truly shameless.
Yes, Leader Apo also began the first Apoist thought by criticizing the Kurds. He did not accept the shortcomings of the Kurds. He was angry at their mistakes and deficiencies. That anger is what made him a great revolutionary leader. That anger has made us great revolutionaries, has put us into the struggle for 50 years. Our anger is great—toward deficiencies, toward mistakes. Firstly, our anger is toward the deficiencies within ourselves. If we don’t correct the shortcomings in ourselves, how will we crush the enemy? How will we repel them? In this regard, they say, “The leadership has criticized this or that part of Kurdish history, has criticized the Kurds.” Yes, he criticizes them; he also criticizes us every day. This is the character of Leader Apo. He does not accept deficiencies. He does not accept mistakes. He will not live side by side with deficiencies or errors. He doesn’t want the Kurds to live side by side with them either. That is why he has now revealed the beautiful Kurd. The Kurd revealed now is the most beautiful people in the world. Yes, there are still shortcomings, inadequacies. There are still collaborators. There is still alienation from Kurdish society, from the reality of Kurdistan. But the Kurd created over these 50 years, the reality of Kurdistan, the reality of Kurdish women, all came into being on the basis of this criticism.
Leader Apo is trying to create a ‘Kurdish thought’
Honestly, when Kurdish men were first criticized, it was very hard for them to accept. Even we were not in a position at first to accept the women’s liberation struggle and to transform ourselves accordingly. Through the leadership’s criticism and insistence, we came to this line. If Kurds are fighting today, if our youth are even more self-sacrificing, if there is such profound patriotism, if Kurds everywhere—in Rojava, Rojhilat, all regions—are in struggle inspired by Leader Apo’s ideas, it is because deficiencies and inadequacies were criticized. To turn this into demagoguery… What Kurdish values were created over 50 years? What emerged? If this struggle hadn’t existed, which of them would have survived? A person should feel some shame when speaking!
From the earliest Hurrians, Gutians, Medes onward, he revealed all the positive values in Kurdish history and made the Kurds visible. There is still a lot yet to be brought to light. He is giving the Kurds a historical foundation. Leader Apo says, “I am trying to create a Kurdish intellect.” This is very important.
In the past, the Kurdish intellect always served others, could not see its own interests, could not serve itself. Now the leadership is creating a Kurdish intellect that will serve itself—and while serving itself, it is not narrow-minded or nationalist—one that will serve not only itself but also all peoples, all humanity. The Kurdish people he seeks are not adversarial, not enemies of others. He is trying to create a Kurdish intellect that will both elevate itself and elevate those around it. All Kurds should strive to understand and learn this Kurdish intellect. In this regard, the criticisms from some Kurdish circles should not be taken seriously at all. They are simply unserious. What are you even talking about? What do you have?
I will say something on this point. Some friends saw this and sent it to me. This Ali Kemal Özcan did an interview on a YouTube channel; there, he supposedly criticizes us. As if we were the ones blocking the leadership’s solution processes and so on.
So that there would not be misunderstandings in society, I said, “Everyone should know that Leader Apo neither deceives nor is deceived. Everyone must know this truth.” The leadership is not one that is deceived or that deceives. I said this openly in the program.
Ali Kemal Özcan comes out and says: “I listened to Karasu. He basically says that they are deceiving our leadership.” What kind of completely reversed interpretation is this? What kind of distorted assessment is this? You were supposedly an academic, a professor. You were supposedly doing research and analysis and telling the truth. Is this how you understand everything you read and hear? I am saying, “This leadership is a leadership that cannot be deceived.” You come and say, “Karasu is saying that our leadership is being deceived.” This shows your level.
I don’t even want to get into his tone. Really, could it be like this? He also says false, fabricated things about other friends. It is clear that he has a prejudice against us, so in his mind, this organization is opposed to Apo… Because he formed such a prejudice, he listens to us and understands the opposite. He should abandon this approach.
Fine, you are making evaluations about the leadership—right or wrong. But to twist a truth to this extent does not suit anyone.
He also said, like some “Rotten Brains,” that I didn’t attend the congress or whatever. He comes out and says, “Karasu did not attend the congress, I hope he is healthy.” Already your mentality is obvious. It means your mind works like those “Rotten Brains.” Just as those Rotten Brains claim Apo is an enemy of the PKK… They think like that. You too are adopting a similar attitude.
On this point, let me say this: Kurds, intellectuals, those who understand correctly, should take a stance against this. Everyone should not find the public arena empty and speak so cheaply. Can such shallow approaches be acceptable? “I don’t know, he didn’t attend the congress, I wonder if he’s well? I hope he is…” says Kemal Özcan. An interesting man, but really—to distort things so much, to work so hard to mislead the public, to create negative perceptions about us… It’s unbelievable!
Dominant powers don’t want chaos Iran
Regarding the new emerging process in the Middle East: What kind of Middle East do they want to create? What do the hegemonic, capitalist powers want to do? This has been explained. In this respect, it has been repeatedly stated that Iran would be next in line. Iran could not correctly assess the developments anyway.
This Hamas incident, Hezbollah attacking Israel, the attacks from Yemen—this was actually Iran cutting the branch it was sitting on, even striking itself. In politics, current developments are assessed based on their concrete conditions—this is called concrete analysis.
In the past, you formed an ideology, a policy. That is separate. Ideological approaches can exist. But Iran was, in the past, a very political society, a political state.
Hezbollah was crushed, Syria fell. The proxy forces were worn down, and thus Iran became a target. Clearly, the US and Israel both showed the attitude: “You will not stand in the way of our Middle East policies. You will comply.” They said, “If you don’t, we will come after you, crush you.”
Now, this reality also exists: Israel is very angry with Iran. The US is very angry too. There are historical reasons why Israel is so furious. It should be known: Perhaps the longest-lasting emotional, strategic relationship in history was between the Jews and the Iranians. The relationship between Persians and Jews is historical. Jews, in some ways, tie their existence to the Iranians. This is also a fact. The Persians played a very important role in the survival of the Jews. They supported them. This became a historical relationship.
When the Iranian Islamic Revolution and later periods became so anti-Israel, Israel felt a great rage: “You turned our historical friend, historical Iran—a society and state with whom we had the best relations—into our enemy. You deprived us of this.” This understanding is what makes them so furious and reactive. So, alongside Israel’s current regional reactions, there are also these reactions based on historical realities.
This is, in a way, also the reaction of the US. Because Iran leans somewhat on the Middle East, on Asia, on Russia. It has such a geopolitical position. They say the same for Turkey, but in fact, Iran’s geopolitical position is also very important. Therefore, they wanted to weaken Iran. They also wanted to subjugate it, but they saw this: If they went too far, chaos and turmoil in Iran would not serve their interests. I also think—they want an intact Iran. An Iran that is tied to them, that plays a role in their strategies. They didn’t dare. They couldn’t risk Iran’s collapse and the uncertainty it would bring, so they stopped. But they did weaken it. Right now, they have been weakened. In fact, from now on, they will try to pursue their policies through this weakened Iran. That is how it appears.
If the Iranian state does not produce creative policies to strengthen itself, it cannot maintain this current state for long.
The same is true for Turkey. They say, “strengthen the domestic front.” How will the domestic front be strengthened? Through democratization. By recognizing and embracing the rights and freedoms of other communities. For Iran—and Turkey—to strengthen themselves and their domestic fronts, they need democratization.
In fact, Iranian history is inclined toward this. But in recent years, in the recent period, a nation-state mentality has emerged that is distant from their own history. In this sense, Iran’s future depends somewhat on its ability to change and transform its policies.
Rojhilat forces can present common program
No doubt, the Middle East is being turned upside down, transforming. Iran too has experienced upheaval, has been weakened. Maybe from now on, it will become even more difficult. In this regard, the approach of the Rojhilat Kurdish forces and all the peoples and democrats of Iran should be to put forward a common program with a democratic understanding—free of nationalism, free of authoritarian approaches towards different religions and ethnicities, seeing them as part of a democratic system, with the perspective of democratic nation and democratization.
Presenting such a program can also be a program of reconciliation with the state. Just as Leader Apo is currently trying to present and reconcile around such a program in Bakur, in Rojhilat too, with such a program—one that is based on democratizing all of Iran, ensuring the free and democratic life of all different ethnic and religious communities in Iran, their local democracies—they must conduct their struggle and define their stance. This is what Iran needs.
External attacks can happen. Other developments can occur. These are issues beyond their control. But the reason why there are already external attacks on Iran is precisely because Iran does not have such a democratic system, such a democracy. Without being democratic, without relying on the democratic strength of their own society, no one can be anti-imperialist anymore. You cannot resist an external attack just with weapons. The greatest self-defense, the greatest source of resistance, is to reconcile with your own society and become a democratic system
