Cemil Bayık: We want to engage in democratic politics
Cemil Bayık said that “in order to wage a struggle for democracy, the democratic forces must come together, create a common ground, and form an alliance.”

The newspaper Yeni Yaşam carried out an interview with Cemil Bayik, co-chair of the KCK Executive Council. The interview was carried out by Nezahat Doğan. We publish the fourth part of the interview.
The first part of the interview can be read here, the second here and the third here.
What is the intention behind this campaign of repression while at the same time a process of peace and the establishment of a Democratic Society are being discussed?
It means sabotaging the solution. That is what we see in practice. The CHP is being targeted; arrests are being made, and the discussion of the existence of the CHP is being brought to the agenda, but on the other hand, it is claimed that a solution is being developed. It is claimed that a softer policy is being pursued in Kurdistan than in the past. Someone whose true goal is peace, whose true goal is to solve the problem, would definitely not do this. To do this means not wanting a solution. There is no other meaning to it. They want to create a reaction against Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan, the Apoist movement, and the Kurds within the CHP, the Turkish left, and democratic circles, and isolate them in this way.
So you see it as an attempt by the government to play democratic forces off against each other?
This is a provocation. It creates a reaction in the Turkish left and democratic circles. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan speaks about ‘Peace and Democratic Society’, and many historic unilateral steps are being taken in this direction, but Turkey has not taken a single serious step. How will Democratic Society be developed in this environment? Here, what they try to achieve is to weaken the belief in Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan.
Society had the same concerns already in 2013-15. Back then, CHP was not in favor of a solution. It was standing against it. Now, the CHP stated that it is in favor of a solution and that it is ready to resolve this issue through all kinds of efforts in parliament. Is there a situation where the ground is being prepared for the CHP to back down from this? How do you think society should evaluate what is happening?
They are excluded from a possible solution to the issue. What this means is that there is no intention to find a solution. This is an attitude that they do not openly display, cannot display, but it is what their actions currently demonstrate. There are significant question marks.
Are the concerns of society justified then?
Of course, the concerns of society are justified. This society has experienced a lot. It is definitely justified to be concerned. But since it is concerned, it needs to embrace the solution developed by Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan to alleviate these concerns. It needs to support Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan and his efforts not only with statements but also with actions.
Where do you see shortcomings in this regard so far?
The problem is that only the same statements are made, and that’s all. There needs to be pressure on the government, but there isn’t. How can pressure be created? If the democratic forces come together, if a democratic front is formed, and if this democratic front carries out a struggle for democracy, then the government will be forced to take action. Without this, they will not do a single step. The deficiency lies here.
So what you are telling the people is not to expect anything from the state, but instead, in order to become a Democratic Society, to strengthen the cooperation and to form serious alliances with all leftist and socialist groups to struggle for Democratic Socialism and Democratic Construction within society?
Exactly; all leftist, socialist, and democratic circles need to develop a common democratic front. The mentality in Turkey, the laws based on that mentality, and the constitution can only be changed through this. Without it, there won’t be any change, and there won’t be a democratization of Turkey. This is the aspect that is not understood in Turkey. Everyone criticizes the government from their own perspective, but almost no one is making the slightest effort to find a way to overcome these problems. They need to come together. They need to create programs. These can be programs that focus on the essentials—there is no need for lengthy programs that go into every detail. It is about creating a common ground and developing a common struggle.
How would you generally assess the understanding of politics in Turkey?
The state dominates politics in Turkey. It is the state that determines the political arena in Turkey. This is very clear. This narrow understanding must be challenged and overcome. This can only be achieved through a struggle for democracy. In order to wage a struggle for democracy, the democratic forces must come together, create a common ground, and form an alliance.
So, you mean engaging with the people in the streets?
What is democracy, after all? It is the people in the streets. Democracy is the streets. Without the language of the streets, democracy cannot develop on its own.
When we look at the streets, a dynamic can be seen, but is it sufficient for what you are aiming for?
The dynamic is not sufficient; it is weak. It needs to become stronger for it to weaken the government. This government will either be forced to take action or resign. That is what the democratic forces need to realize. The government is taking advantage of the fragmentation of the democratic forces.
This government is trying to create certain perceptions in order to maintain its power, thinking that this will enable it to overcome its current situation. However, this will only weaken it even further in the long run. If they really want to stay in power, what they have to do is abandon their current policy. They need to base themselves on democracy. This may strengthen them again. Otherwise, if they think they can maintain their power by abolishing democracy, abolishing the constitution, abolishing the law, and suppressing all opponents, they are mistaken. They will suffer the greatest damage themselves.
Are the CHP and the Kurds in agreement? When Erdoğan said, “The three of us are in alliance,” was that something MHP and DEM Party agreed on?
That is something the Kurdish people determine. The Kurds are not focused on bringing someone to power or removing someone from power. The Kurds’ goal is the democratization of Turkey. It is the enactment of laws for its liberation. It is the development of a democratic constitution appropriate for it. This is where the Kurds stand. We call this the Third Way. Neither serving the government nor serving the opposition. As a movement, we do not have such concerns. We do not have the mindset of “let’s bring this person to power or let’s not bring that person to power.” We are struggling for the democratization of Turkey. For this reason, we want to develop this with forces that have a pro-democracy agenda. This is our goal, and it should be understood as such. We do not take sides in any conflict. We cannot take sides for this government or that government. What is our position? It is the democratization of Turkey. It is taking steps in that direction. We will work together with anyone who makes efforts in that direction.
In the call of February 27, it is said that the laying down of arms would only become possible once the legal and judicial foundation has been created. This was underlined again, at the ceremony where symbolically weapons were burned, by Besê Hozat. Now that the guerrillas have returned to the mountains, everyone is wondering what they are doing there now. What will happen next?
It is necessary to correctly understand the issue of burning weapons. The world is moving towards armament. NATO is pushing towards armament. The number of existing weapons has drastically increased. This is the world we are living in. Again, weapons are speaking in the Middle East, blood is flowing, and there are major changes. In this surrounding, we decided to burn our weapons. Now, this is of great meaning. We wanted to send a message with this. While the world is moving towards armament, while NATO is moving towards armament, while the Middle East is at war, we are burning weapons. In other words, we want to free our world and our people from war. There is another message as well. The Kurds have a history, a tradition, and a culture of fire. They have Newroz.
What is the meaning of fire to you?
We are the children of fire. By burning the weapons, we made it very clear that we want to start a new era. We showed everyone that we do not want to resort to weapons again, that we do not want to wage an armed struggle. In other words, if we burned the weapons, we burned them for this reason. Comrade Besê said, “We want to go to Turkey and take part in democratic politics. We want to engage in democratic politics. But since the groundwork and conditions for this do not exist yet, we will return to where we came from. They said this very clearly. Now, if these comrades had gone to Turkey after burning their weapons, they would have all been thrown into prison.
This is what happened to the Peace Groups.
Exactly, the results of the Peace Groups that went to Turkey before are evident. For the comrades to go now, a change in law and constitution is required. But there are no changes in the laws. Those anti-terrorism laws are still in effect. A Kurdish woman in Istanbul is still fighting for her life because she listened to Kurdish music. How would our comrades go under these conditions? People who have lived in the mountains with weapons for years, for decades, who have fought, are now burning their weapons. Since they can’t go to Turkey, they return to where they came from. They need guarantees. Now these comrades have burned their weapons and do not want to take up arms again. As a movement, we do not consider it appropriate for these comrades to take up arms again. Of course, these comrades have security issues.
So now they are no longer taking up arms where they are?
Yes! They did not take up arms again. They burned their weapons once and sent the message.
They are now unarmed?
They have taken practical steps toward this. They said they would no longer use weapons. They want to get engaged in democratic politics. If the legal basis for this is created, they will no longer use weapons.
Do you see it as necessary, that the state passes a special law for the PKK? Or is the real guarantee for them to come down from the mountains not amnesty, but a law that covers everything?
We do not want amnesty.
What do you want?
We want the laws to change.
Which laws do you want to change first?
First of all, we want the laws applied to Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan to be changed. We want the Imrali system to be abolished. We want any journalist, academic, or politician who wishes to do so to be able to visit and discuss with Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan, and for this path to be open. On the other hand, there are undemocratic laws in Turkey. These laws need to be changed not only for Kurds but for all democratic forces and for leftist forces. Democratic laws need to develop. Freedom laws need to develop. The constitution is a failed constitution. They themselves are already admitting it. It is the constitution of the September 12 regime. It has been patched up many times, but its spirit remains the same. This constitution needs to be changed. This constitution needs to be inclusive. It needs to move away from being based on a single language and a single nation. If there is talk of change in this type of legislation, if steps are taken in this direction, they may not be able to do it in a flash, but at least if the commission that is to be established is given the right name, if it says what kind of work it will do, what kind of laws it will change, if there is a solution to the Kurdish issue in this… If changing the laws in Turkey, changing the laws to create a democratic constitution, is discussed, and if they explain this to the public, then Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan will evaluate it. We will take steps based on what he decides. Beyond that, we cannot take new steps without seeing the commission’s work and understanding what is being said in practical terms.
After the weapons were burned, there were many reports that another group would lay down their weapons. Is there any truth to these reports and rumors?
I also heard something like this on NTV the other day. “They will lay down their weapons in Hewlêr [Erbil], then another group in Duhok.” It’s laughable. This is a clumsy attempt to create a perception and pressure. We do not succumb to such pressure, nor do we act according to the perceptions they create. We are a movement that acts according to our goals. We do not take steps according to such impositions. We have taken the steps we were going to take. We took them even though no one asked us to. Our leader asked the movement to take them, and so the movement took those steps. What the goal of our leader is is very clear. He explained why we are disbanding, why we are setting an end to the armed struggle, and explained its theoretical, philosophical, and sociological aspects. We are taking these steps on that basis. It is not because someone asked us to. From now on, we will only respond to practical steps that will be taken by the other side. Nobody can impose demands on us; we will not accept those demands.
There were also prolonged processes. Are you saying that a situation where things drag on for a long time is no longer possible? Will you wait and see the swift steps taken before determining your approach? What is it?
You have already before mentioned delays and attempts to drag out the process. Can be assumed that the process will be a long one? How long will you wait before deciding how to proceed?
Of course, the issue for us is not whether to do these things in the long term or the short term. We believe in something, and we take steps accordingly. These steps cannot be taken unilaterally. Even Bahçeli said, “A bird cannot fly with one wing.” Now, there is not even a bird with one wing. Right now there is nothing that can be called a bird. That is why we are developing the process out of our sense of responsibility to the people. We are not developing it according to the wishes of this or that individual. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan said that if there is a change in his conditions, he is confident in himself, both practically and theoretically. He will solve this problem. This seemed strange to many. He is the leader of a movement that has been struggling for decades. There are intense attacks, so how can he make such a statement in such an environment of isolation? Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan has always taken steps in line with his goals, starting from the very beginning in Ankara. His working style is not about waiting for opportunities or possibilities. He creates opportunities and possibilities. He forces the other side to take steps and accept them. This has continued from Ankara to the present day. This is what he has been doing in Imrali. Since 1993, he has wanted to make a strategic change. He wanted to restructure the movement. He wanted the movement to restructure itself and work on a democratic basis. It never happened, but now he sees that it can happen. Because Turkey is in a tight spot now, the politics it has been pursuing have failed; it can’t continue. The problems are serious, and there are the developments in the Middle East. All these taken together, Turkey’s much-discussed survival issue comes to the fore.
And this will be overcome by an alliance with the Kurds?
There is no other way. Only through good relations with the Kurds can this situation be overcome. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan assessed it this way and told them, “Since you want to get out of this situation, this is the way out.” He says, “I am helping you to get out.” Nothing can be achieved unilaterally. Unilaterally, he has laid the groundwork for them to take steps to make their work easier; he has taken the biggest steps. He has addressed the issues that are sensitive for them from the perspective of our society. The rest now depends on the steps the state takes; if they take steps, we will take steps too. We can get Turkey out of this situation. This is the way forward.
But looking at it, they are making cheap and abbreviated calculations, thinking that they will remain in power by developing some individual relations with Kurds and making some limited reforms. This will neither save them nor Turkey. If they really want Turkey to get out of this situation, if they want to stay in power, they cannot do so by making some limited reforms. Especially if they continue with the policies they have been pursuing, they cannot do it at all. The only thing they can do is to abandon these policies, involve everyone in the process, and bring this process to success on the path laid out by Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan. Ensuring a fundamental change.
In fact, Kurdish-Turkish relations have a thousand-year-old history. How would you describe it?
Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan is revealing Kurdish history, as well as the common history of the Kurds and Turks. The true history has been pushed aside, meaning that a history without Kurds was created. Now it is very clear that this is not correct. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan is reevaluating history on its true foundations. He wants to reveal the true continuity of Kurdish-Turkish relations throughout history. This is what he is working on. In the course of this, he is also uncovering the history of the Kurds. He has given back to a people its history. It is no longer possible to erase the Kurds from the history books. It is no longer possible to deny the existence of the Kurds.
To this day, the state has imposed a certain mindset on society. In this mindset, the Kurds do not exist. In fact, there is hostility toward the Kurds. They need to overcome this hostility. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan has laid out the way and means to overcome it before them. If they take him as their basis, they can eliminate this fragmentation, these misconceptions, and these prejudices in society. Otherwise, by continuing, reinforcing, and deepening this, they will not get anywhere; it is that clear